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"Non-Lethals"

Metz · 6645

Offline Metz

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on: September 09, 2016, 09:47:19 PM
Forgive me if this is already a topic somewhere.

So, my one character Emma prefers to not kill people if possible, even though she actively explores new ways to do that. But, ICly, I think if she had the forethought she'd try to minimize casualties. Therefore, I had some questions about different sorts of non-lethal weapons, and how a knock-out is handled.

Melee
Hands: Doesn't apply to many of mine, but if a character was big enough or trained in a certain way this would be applicable. Mechanical advantage holds, say, a choke-hold, or a choke in general (magical tendril, whathaveyou). What sort of turn-count would you have before someone was choked out, if the proper technique was being used to cut off circulation at their carotids? It wouldn't last long as a knock-out, of course, and character's skin thickness and such would come into account. But, average humanoid, what would it be like in posting?

Baton/Club: This, I imagine would be harder to determine, and would go entirely off character body type. Is there a set 'standard' for average sized humanoids? Hard to knock out a dragon or an oni.

Ranged
Bolts/Arrows: This is really why I'm asking this. I'd like to have Emma use some crossbow bolts that had their pointed tips removed and the shafts flattened, perhaps replaced with some sort of softer tip, and thickly lacquered. Against magical enemies and such, this downgrade might border on the suicidal. But against regular humanoids, could it be a 'safe' alternative? Surely it would still hurt and bad, crack bone at close range, but would it be a viable alternative to launching a lawn dart into someone's skull?

"Poison"
Smoke Bombs: Some sort of CS/Tear gas possible? Not crazy purple knockout gas, but you guys probably get where I'm going. Smoke/Gas to make ranged attacks more difficult, to make magic focus more difficult, that sort of thing. Emma could possibly make these for the guard, but I don't know, I don't want to do anything people would think was too OP.

What do you guys think?



Lionheart

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Reply #1 on: September 15, 2016, 03:00:59 PM
Therefore, I had some questions about different sorts of non-lethal weapons, and how a knock-out is handled.

Before I answer each, please note I'm not some "final answer" to all of these. This is just my experience and what I think is fair based on my play. Each one of these boils down heavily on the matter of consent and player interaction.

You will find that some players don't mind having their character downed-and-outed, whereas others may fight through injuries that otherwise incapacitate them as they have (insert anime-experience reason or "winning complex" reasoning) for why their character is still fighting.


Melee
Hands: Doesn't apply to many of mine, but if a character was big enough or trained in a certain way this would be applicable. Mechanical advantage holds, say, a choke-hold, or a choke in general (magical tendril, whathaveyou). What sort of turn-count would you have before someone was choked out, if the proper technique was being used to cut off circulation at their carotids? It wouldn't last long as a knock-out, of course, and character's skin thickness and such would come into account. But, average humanoid, what would it be like in posting?

I would say about two-three rounds of direct applied pressure to the neck/arteries and/or throat would have a character become knocked out. In most cases, this would "end the fight" and the character wakes up a few post rounds later, maybe about three, after the battle has concluded.

Baton/Club: This, I imagine would be harder to determine, and would go entirely off character body type. Is there a set 'standard' for average sized humanoids? Hard to knock out a dragon or an oni.

Anywhere from four to five direct bashes to the skull is enough to rock anyone to the point of heavy concussion, dazing, or even brain hemorrhaging that will lead to death if you play the "average human" type character.

In some instances, one heavy blow to the head will be enough.

Again, player preference and there's no standard besides "be fair" that I think most everyone here agrees on.

Ranged
Bolts/Arrows: This is really why I'm asking this. I'd like to have Emma use some crossbow bolts that had their pointed tips removed and the shafts flattened, perhaps replaced with some sort of softer tip, and thickly lacquered. Against magical enemies and such, this downgrade might border on the suicidal. But against regular humanoids, could it be a 'safe' alternative? Surely it would still hurt and bad, crack bone at close range, but would it be a viable alternative to launching a lawn dart into someone's skull?

If you are asking "Can my character impale your head with an arrow and have your character not die..?"


I would avoid trying to use anything similar to an arrow or bolt for a "knockout" type. Anything we might come up with, such as a heavy stone on the end of an arrow bolt, is going to make the arrow very ineffective, and you're still risking "death" by having even a non-pointed arrow bash someone in the skull because of skull fractures and then internal head trauma.

"Poison"
Smoke Bombs: Some sort of CS/Tear gas possible? Not crazy purple knockout gas, but you guys probably get where I'm going. Smoke/Gas to make ranged attacks more difficult, to make magic focus more difficult, that sort of thing. Emma could possibly make these for the guard, but I don't know, I don't want to do anything people would think was too OP.

There are definitely "poisons of the era" that I think I would find acceptable. I'd lean on the historical references of Squall ( @Squall ) and Rolan Blackvald ( @Rolan ) to actively describe this one.

Given the quasi-magical, multi-cultural nature of our system, I'd think someone could have a "tear inducing gas" that would have the similar effects you are speaking of, be it a combination of Black-Pepper Bombs, Limestone, or even Chili-Powder Bombs were possible to have these kinds of effects.

Poisons are very much so an active and highly effective way to kill people in this medieval era... except when you realizing half the population is dark, undead, or demonic, and the other half is split between hyper powerful and mundane.



Offline Metz

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Reply #2 on: September 16, 2016, 11:36:27 AM
Yay, I thought those would be the answers.

Although with bows and crossbows, I've heard that in medieval times a special flattened tip was used to hunt smaller game to prevent damaging the pelt. "Fowling Bolts" or somesuch? I was led to believe that whatever these tips were made of were incapable of killing larger game, deer having thicker and sloped skulls and all. So if someone were caught with actual arrowheads in the King's Forest, they'd be arrested on the spot for intent to hunt deer instead of the smaller game they were authorized. Probably be good for breaking an assailant's arm or leg or cracking their sternum, though.



Offline Thatguy

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Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 05:31:28 PM
I think we're all missing the obvious answer:

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I think if you want to incapacitate someone with a ranged weapon you'd be better off going for magical nonsense (taser arrow?) or doing some kind of knock-out gas in a breakable tip that you just fire near your target. Otherwise just do the Disney thing and pin people to stuff by their clothing.



Offline Abigail Wilde

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Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 12:14:26 PM
I think we're all missing the obvious answer:

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I think if you want to incapacitate someone with a ranged weapon you'd be better off going for magical nonsense (taser arrow?) or doing some kind of knock-out gas in a breakable tip that you just fire near your target. Otherwise just do the Disney thing and pin people to stuff by their clothing.

Damnit, you beat me to it! :D

Physiology I think is the biggest factor. I play a regenerating shape shifter, a plant, and a chubby giant.  The plant doesn't need to use her lungs for air, so choking her would do nothing. Abigail's body would clot the wound rather quickly so arrows are unless they can break a bone. And trying to reach Rose's head can be difficult, especially for someone like Squall. Her arms would almost be as long as Squall is tall.

I think having a non lethal character would have to be very flexible with the different races and species in furc.  In the end, cleverness is your best weapon.